 [63] TALK.POLITICS.DRUGS (1:375/48)  TALK.POLITICS.DRUGS 
 Msg  : #2667 [200] - 2157                                                      
 From : GregT10548                          1:2613/335      Wed 17 Aug 94 22:05 
 To   : All                                                                     
 Subj : Urine Test Questions and Comments                                       

From: gregt10548@aol.com (GregT10548)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

In article <103304Z17081994@anon.penet.fi>, an121031@anon.penet.fi writes:

[cut out NORML drug testing info.]

Thank you for the info that your friend received from NORML.  I had never
heard of the  soya lecithin softgels before.  Anyone else know about them.
 The hydration routine seems to be the most common advice I have seen.

:1)  How effective should these methods have been?  How likely
:is a false negative?  My friend smokes small quantities of weed
:pretty frequently, but not excessively, and had abstained for
:five days prior to the test.

I have heard that the methods are pretty good.  For someone that is a
moderate smoker this can get you a positive test after about eight days, I
have heard three for an infrequent smoker.  Unfortunately I have not heard
what constitutes a moderate smoker though.

Compuchem is one of the better known labs in the country.  Typically the
studies that are in the literature do not concentrate on the likelihood of
a false positive.  I'll address more of this later.

:2)  If he does get red-flagged, how likely is it that he'll get a
:second chance to take the test?  Is this legally required?
:Is this legally required in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania?

My guess is that it will be pretty unlikely that he will get a second
chance.  I do not know the state laws in Penn., but in general I have not
seen that there is much recourse for people that test positive.

:3)  Does the cost of the test and that the urine is being shipped
:indicate the type of test, whether EMIT or RIA or some kind of
:mass spectrography?  Is fifty bucks likely to be a pretty low-end
:test, where they do something on a slide?

The company I work for, not for long if I have any luck with the job
search, uses Compuchem.  The testing procedure they use is for a two test
procedure.  The first test is an immunoassay test which is notoriously
inaccurate.  This test costs about $25-$30.  The research I have seen on
this test is that it will result in false positives as often as 10%.  I am
guessing, but because the concentration is constantly on reducing the
number of false positives, I would believe that the rate of false
negatives are as great or higher.

If this test comes up positive then the sample is tested using Gas
Chromotography/Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS).  This test will cost about
50$-80$. The data I have found indicates that at best this test has a
false positive rate of 1 out of 686 specimens.  The Center for Desease
Control concluded that false positive rates were 3% for amphetamines, 2%
for morphine, 1% for cocaine and codeine, and less than 1% for
barbituates.  I have not seen any data on pot :-(. This test is difficult
to run because the machine is so complex, and requires a great deal of
skill.  Also some of the drugs listed above willresult in false positives
because their mass spectra are very similar to so many legal drugs.

I recommend "The Other Side of Drug Testing", by William Holstein.
ChemTech, September, 1992.  American Chemical Society.  Excellent article
with lots of good references.

The final backup for the procedure that the company I work for uses is a
Medical Review Officer (MRO).  If the GC/MS indicates a positive the MRO
will review the results and talk to the person tested to determine if the
test is a result of some of the things listed above. (I find this almost
laughable if it were not so sad.  After all the testing it still comes
down to whether or not you can convince a single person, MRO, that you
didn't do it.  As a further aside I have been asking some of the people I
work with what the odds are that the MRO will believe that a general
manager's test is false versus, say, a black mailroom clerk.  My
management doesn't like that question :-)).

:4)  If he shows up positive, is there any ex post facto way
:of bollixing or invalidating the test?

Somebody here, I think, posted that you might have tried to mess up their
chain of command when the test was taken by signing your name in the wrong
spot, etc., otherwise I don't know of any.

:Thank you, and I hope that I've given some useful information
:as well as asking for some.

:Anonymous Dude

Thank you.  It has.

                                                  Greg

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You don't count the dead with god on your side.

                                      Bob Dylan
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